A "mind-blowing lack of understanding" is how Scottish Widows' Robert Cochran describes his experience of many customers' knowledge of pensions around the time pension freedoms were launched in 2015.

Since then he's been on a mission to help simplify language around pensions and get people engaged and excited in what their pension could do for them.

What actually works? And how can it be harnessed to raise industry and governments' collective game on this vital issue for delivering better retirement outcomes?

This week on the podcat, Tom and Robert explore the challenges and opportunities around pension engagement. From boarding a pension bus, through where value for money assessments fit in, to the DWP's engagement season initiative, it's a wide-ranging conversation packed with insight.

You'll find this and all our previous episodes wherever you normally get your podcasts including Spotify, Google and more.

Thanks for listening.